Debbie Esparza and Tonya Dawn Recla on Making Way for Others

Tonya Dawn Recla:

The Superpower Network celebrates courageous creativity with pride, honoring LGBTQI plus contributions to how we see our world, how we see each other, how we express ourselves, how we live, and how we love. And every era, every culture, and every nation, individuals challenging the status quo for an opportunity to creatively self-expressed, make it possible for all of us. Thank you for having the courage to share you with us and inviting us to look deeper within ourselves toward what’s possible. We love you and love each other. 

Debbie, so glad you’re joining us here. so delighted that you’re part of this speech here. We’re gonna jump into our relationship, how you came to be here, but first, we want to ask you that pivotal question, what are your superpowers? And how are you using them for good?

Tonya Dawn Recla:

Because I think if we’re honest, a lot of the ways of being haven’t really ever worked for anybody. But we sort of accepted them maybe. And certainly, coming out of the LGBTQIA-plus community, we see all kinds of stories about the ways in which these systems don’t work for everybody. And I think we can relate to that. Right? And so I’d love for you to share a little bit of your story. 

We met at the YWCA here in Phoenix, with the mission of eradicating racism and empowering women. You’re such a beautiful voice and active voice in all kinds of communities, just encouraging us to love right? Encouraging us to tap into that superpower and remember that we are bigger, we are connected, and ultimately what we do to one we do to all. And so talk with me a little bit about how you just woke up? And that was your vision from infancy? Was that a developmental journey for you? How did you come into this?

Debbie Esparza:

I think I’ve known about it for a very long time. It’s just there’s a part again, the part of the system then and society that doesn’t want you to embrace some of your superpowers, and live as fully as you can. So much of my upbringing and my education in my early careers were very focused on doing what other people said Success looked like. And in all of those journeys, I bumped my head against patriarchy, hierarchy, perfectionism, and having to assimilate code switches and do things that were not my full self. And they often always gave me angst and uncomfortable feelings. What showed up for me when this role happened, was the CEO of YWCA, metro Phoenix, and I decided to apply because I wasn’t looking for a job. But I know the YWCA for a couple of decades, having previously served on their board understanding their mission. I see the world through the lens of race and gender if that’s a superpower too, I mean the whole world does this impact women and people of color, but this role helps me allowed me gave me permission if I want to say that to be who I am and show up as what I call a brown gave boomer to lead this organization in this very tumultuous time. Where folks need folks to lead with authenticity, transparency, and with love instead of fear. And so it just was the natural role for me right now. I often am heard saying I wish I had this role 20 years ago, which is when I first learned about the work of the YWCA. Because I may have not spent the previous 20 years doing things other people thought were successful. And now my success is measured differently. And I don’t know if that answered your question, but I’m here on purpose. Literally, I’m here with intention. And I’m here with joy and love, even though sometimes that’s hard to hold.

Tonya Dawn Recla:

The walk of the social impact professional right is no joke. Let people know where they can find out more about your work over the wire and the beautiful team that you’ve cultivated there and the wonderful things you’re doing for our community. Where can we send them to find out more about why?

Debbie Esparza:

Well, you can always go to our website ywcaaz.org. Or you can find us on all the social media platforms at YWCA AZ.

Tonya Dawn Recla:

Beautiful. Very honored to serve on the board there and we volunteer as their whole family does. And it’s a remarkable mission to be a part of a great team over there. So get involved. This is the time to think about where you want to funnel your creative energy into making an impact and I dare say that social impact is going to be the focus for all of us in the very, very near future. And I haven’t met very many individuals who don’t realize that there are some serious conversations happening about how we all gather, how we connect, how we share spaces. And those are pretty significant conversations, and they will shape the world that we live in. And so getting involved now and becoming a social impact professional now allows your voice to be part of that allows you to have those realizations 20 years earlier, right? I’m like, maybe I don’t want to live this way. Maybe I don’t want to contribute to things like this, maybe I don’t want to build my business this way. You know, we’ve had those realizations in our own work, our own walk, and it’s layer upon layer upon layer, folks, be gentle with yourselves, really, these are developmental processes that we’re under, they’re pretty deep, like if the nature of our existence, who we believe ourselves to be gentle. Gentle matters that we’re diving into. And so now more than ever, we need to make sure that we’re thinking about others who are slipping through the cracks, who don’t have what we haven’t. Debbie, one of the things that I really honor about you and appreciate is your willingness to always speak about privilege. And it’s multifaceted in this because it does have a lot of faces, and it is present in all of us. All of us have some sort of privilege , right? Now, if you know how to take a deep breath and find peace and calm within yourself. That is a privilege, pass it on to others, right? Find your privilege, pass it on, find your privilege, pass it on, because we all have the privilege and have something somewhere. 

And so Debbie, in your work, you’re making some waves doing some radical things proving like walking that talk, right? Like I love the fact that you don’t keep it theoretical, you’re really bold and radical saying, We’re going to try this, we’re not going to make it about the money. And I really appreciate that about you. So talk to us a little bit about what that’s done for you and what kind of growth you’ve undergone. But then also the incredible benefits and rewards that are happening because of that sort of walk of faith. And like I think we can just vote on love and humanity.

Debbie Esparza:

Yeah, thank you. That has been a journey. And I do recognize that I have had the privilege. And I understand so clearly that it’s my role to share that privilege and use that leverage that privilege for good, right? One of my favorite things I heard someone say in a bio for me, I said, and something about Debbie, the disrupter. I realize it was obvious but good.

Tonya Dawn Recla:

Yes, we all know, Debbie.

Debbie Esparza:

And just being willing to stand in and be the one to stand in that disruptive space, and not shrink and not retreat. Because it’s in that disruptive space that you create the new playing ground for what’s going to be built next, that generative space, you can’t get to the generative space unless you take something down or make that clearing. And, you know, for those folks that built the system that’s not working for most people, they don’t like it when we disrupt it. And when you know, take it down to create something that’s more equitable, or more just, or has more social impact for everyone, not just those that have it is uncomfortable for those folks, and I do watch. Their faces sometimes when I’m when I say, how do you think that will impact women and people of color? And they say, good question. I don’t know. And I said we should explore that. Or when I’m in a conversation with folks that have power, right? And resourced, coming up with new programs and ways to solve, you know, problems in the community. And they come up with all these and then I say, Well, have you actually asked the people that this impacts? Have you convened some folks, that would be a part of this, to see what they need, what they want, how they feel? No, we haven’t done that. Well, let’s do that. Let’s get to the ground truth, what’s really going to work here and listen to the voices that are so often not heard, are the people that are unseen. And, really learn from that, and see what we can do. And again, I guess that is definitely the disrupter going, I think you said one time, I don’t work from the theory, I work from the implementation from the impact from the action from the experience. And I really value that, you know, my experience has served me better than my education many times. But again, education was a privilege as well. So I don’t take it for granted. But I think, yeah. 

Tonya Dawn Recla:

I’ll stop there. I love it. It’s beautiful. And folks, it’s okay, it only hurts for a second, right? You just lie there and take it. I just had to get that one. And anyway, it really only hurts for a second as you watch your world crumble, because ultimately, at the end of the day, the discomfort is in realizing that you’ve been carrying your own dissonance. Like you’ve been carrying your own stripe, you intrinsically we all know, this isn’t working. It’s not even working for the sensitive aspects inside of each one of us. And all of us have it right. We are selling ourselves out every time we do. That’s what’s so ridiculous about it all when you and I talk a lot about the need for energetic sensitization and energetic communication, like understanding that we’re dealing with nuances and things that are happening under the surface. And women and people of color have known this forever, right? I call it the prayer filter, right? When you walk around with a prayer filter on, you know, about a whole lot about yourself about others about the world, because you have to constantly translate the world, you have to constantly translate yourself into this middle space that you have to create. It isn’t you. It isn’t the world. But it’s this kind of middle space, right? Well, that variability has become incredibly valuable. 

Right now, as we move into this evolution of humanity, that is the exact process that is necessary to build into spaces that we can’t see yet. So women, and people of color, who have evolved through that identity are sitting in pretty powerful positions right now because we possess abilities that far exceed those of individuals who have never really had to analyze themselves or think about it, or think about others. That’s a big problem. And so that’s where I see the beauty in the balance, right? It’s kind of like, oh, you know, privileges, it’s kind of it’s a thing, right? You can’t, you can’t have it without accepting the fact that it’s got this natural self-destruct prop property to it, it has to because it always seeks to protect itself, which means it is a way of defending against something else, which is something inside of us every time because we can’t be separate from ourselves. So it creates this whole real dissonance inside of us. And it does create discomfort. Face it folks, there’s no way out. I love talking to people who are like oneness, and everything is like you’re not getting there unless you look at race, unless you’re looking at gender and your relationship too because it does matter. We do identify with it in our culture. If we did it, it wouldn’t be a big deal. But we do so. And so we have to look at anywhere that we think we are something and not something else and see where we’ve compromised our humanity and get really in touch with that. And I actually think that’s the fear, especially in the LGBTQIA-plus community because it’s the one that scares us the most because it’s the easiest one to target. And I think it’s the one where we realize just how much of ourselves we can compromise.

Debbie Esparza:

Let me share with you just a thought. In 2018, I had again the privilege to attend the Gay Games, which happens like the Gay Olympics, and there were 10,000 LGBTQIA folks from all around the world, competing in 60 different sports. I danced. I competed in a dance sport. And I gotta tell you, Tonya, I was afraid for a bit. I was incredibly proud to be among, right and to be seen in this collective and felt. But I also said there are 10,000 of us proudly Marjan around, right, in one city, somebody can hate us enough to cause harm. And I was so upset that I had to think that I didn’t have to think that I was so upset that I thought that because I was there wanting to be full of joy and pride, and dancing. And for you know, the first few moments, I’m like, somebody could kill me, just because I’m here to dance with a woman. And that was very sad. But that’s part of what I heard, and you saying that you know, there are these things that some people don’t see that cause that fear. And you can yield to the fear and not go to Paris, and dance, or you could, you know, experience it and say, I’m still going to find the joy in this, and be all that I am and come to do what I agreed to do. So again, a silly example. But it’s still a very poignant moment, in my experience, and for my dance partner who is cisgender. White woman, I’m brown, and she’s married to a man. She didn’t have that same fear. Her fear was different. Her fear was I’m surrounded by 10,000 LGBTQ folks. And I’m the other. Right. And it wasn’t me, that was the other. So again, just kind of holding that indifference,

Tonya Dawn Recla:

Different ways. So beautiful. Thank you so much for sharing that story and the realness of it right. And I think, if our world wasn’t so ruled, then we wouldn’t have an LGBTQIA plus community, because we would just be right if we would just be able to be present and reimagine, and I really see this in the younger generations is fluidity. And it’s not new, it’s just our systems don’t support it, right? We don’t think that way. Because our programs train us to think, in very constructed ways. And so it is evolving. And it’s a huge, huge unfair to ask for anybody to stand up and be seen, and to speak into this. And we know it, and it has to be done, right? And it’s going to take those of us to say, You know what, whatever happens here happens, we’re going to live beyond this, knowing ourselves as bigger than this. And we’re going to do everything we can here while we’re here. 

But ultimately, at the end of the day, we know who we are. And we will not be cheap in ourselves to participate in things that dehumanize anybody, even if it means the demise of our physical being. We won’t do it. And that’s a stance, right? And that’s a stand for humanity. But we have to be able to see ourselves beyond just ourselves. And that takes the scope that you’re talking about some identifying, starting with putting yourself in positions where you are the other. I live my life that way. I wanted to be the only one everywhere because you get to see so much and be in so much. And you get to examine yourself like that is not what I was taught. And that’s not how it was shown to me. And that’s cool. We all have different realities, but you get to learn a lot, right? It starts there, and then it goes to, and then you show up. And then you say, Hey, I have friends like you who run every comment. Do all of those people you learn to love? Well if they found out that I was sitting here and heard that said, and I nodded my head in agreement. I’m not sure how I could live with myself. And you hold that relationship and that love and that connection ahead of your comfort in social situations. Right. And sometimes that does lead to violence, right? It’s not necessarily that there’s a real escalation of force we can talk about. But to at least say, I’m just not comfortable being a party to this right and just and just right not to be complicit and complacent to things that would hurt the people that we care about. But it has to start with us caring about people, which means we have to initially care about ourselves enough to figure out what that looks like. Right?

Debbie Esparza:

And earlier on. You mentioned social impact professionals. What I’m hearing you wager now is that we’re just social impact humans, right? It doesn’t have to be my job to create a social impact. Like I’m privileged, somebody pays me. Well. I have to raise all the money that I pay by myself. somebody pays me to do this work with joy. And many of our folks that connect with the YWCA are folks that are advocating for what they care about. And that’s still a social impact. Even if it’s not your job, your profession is being a socially impact human being that that humanity, and how, how are you? How are we? How am I contributing to the community that I’m living, you know, and making space for all of us to be included and heard and seen, and, and cared for? Right? I think that caring and that compassion is really key. And that again, that superpower of love and compassion.

Tonya Dawn Recla:

Yes, that’s a beautiful, beautiful note. And in folk clubs, you can start by thinking about where you are taking more than you’re giving, right? And give back, give first, right, and then extend that and just continue to see and stretch yourself to see how many people you can connect into right, how much light you can shine, make a game out of it, just turn it around. When you’re feeling kind of down and stuff, see where you can contribute, go volunteer, go help out, I promise you, it changes your outlook. it reconnects you to your humanity and to humanity as a whole. And to remind you that there’s a whole lot that matters out there, folks, and it is worth what we’re being lit up about. And so Debbie, thank you on behalf of all of us for your courage, for your creativity, for your disruption, for your willingness to just be you and to share that so openly with all of us, we know that, that it’s been a walk in a forging, and we don’t take that lightly. And so we say thank you, to you.

Debbie Esparza:

Thank you, I will say there’s a little thing on my wall that says when the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace.

Tonya Dawn Recla:

Beautiful, beautiful. Thank you so much. Make sure you go participate with the why donate, volunteer, whatever you can do. Why did ywcaaz.org do phenomenal work there under Debbie’s leadership? And shout out to the teams over there and the board and everyone making all of that possible. You all are amazing. And we’re excited to be back in there with you, get over to superpowerexperts.com and get that training you need to be effective in your social impact. It’s super simple, super easy. Walk through the steps and then work with them. Right? It’s worth it’s empowering yourself. Get some power going if you’re going to be out in the world making change, right? Get confident in yourself. And that’s easy to do if you have it within you when you walk through those steps, super simple. Go to superpower experts.com, and click on courses. And you’ll find the CEFA core training there to help you with that. We love you all, we’re so appreciative of you. And we and we love that you’re supporting the network. Keep doing your social impact and making a way for others. Again, Debbie, thank you for joining us today. We appreciate you being here. As for all of you out there. Thank you so much for listening and for all of your continued support of the network. Remember who you are. We love you and love each other. Goodbye for now.

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