Hello everybody! This is Tonya Dawn Recla, your Super Power Expert and I am delighted to have with us today, Michael Danziger. So I want to brag about him for a minute because Michael isn’t somebody that we would typically talk about in terms of, you know, having like let’s say, more of our woo-woo guests like the energy work and the healers and the this and that. But we do have on this show amazing people in business. But here’s a gentleman who in my opinion, and it’s not extremely well-founded in history but certainly in energy, he encompasses and embodies this amazing aspect of powerful vulnerability. And so I’m really excited to share him with you all today. We’re going to talk about personal achievements and persistence. And he’s got quite an interesting take on that conversation. So without further ado join me in welcoming Michael to the show. Welcome, Michael.
It’s so great to be here, Tonya. Thank you so much for having me.
Absolutely. So before we get into your amazing book, let’s go ahead and just ask you, what are your Super Powers?
My superpower is being vulnerable.
Photo by Lukas Bornhauser on Unsplash
I think my Super Powers are vulnerability and honesty and a fabulous sense of humor. And I would think that being able to be vulnerable has allowed…is an incredibly disarming quality because everybody else in the room sort of takes a deep breath and sends us a “I don’t have to be perfect either.” And believe me I’m as flawed as you may. I think embracing your flaws, making your mess you message and being honest are, you know, are the keys to, you know, what has made me successful if I had been. And whenever I’m not vulnerable and whenever I am dishonest, and I’ve been dishonest, I find that, you know, the exact opposite is true.
I really appreciate everything that you’re saying. We talked a little bit about, you know, the fact that we’ve built a couple of business based on transparency. We operate that way, you know. And it’s quite counterintuitive, you know, for folks who don’t practice that sort of openness and, you know the Super Power arena. I talk a lot about expansion, being energetically expanded in terms of how we connect with people because, ultimately, that’s what honesty and vulnerability lead us into is connection. It kind of, you know, we have a saying over in the corporate counter intel side of the house that, you know, transparency expedites trust. And it’s that vulnerability piece and willingness to be kind of yourself, a lot of people equate that with weakness. You know, how do you kind of reconcile that?
Wow, that’s a great question because I think a lot of people do equate, you know, admitting that you are scared to go out on a first date or admitting that when you’re really tired and in the middle of rolling your eyes, you feel afraid of that next stroke. But so many more people can relate to, you know, your honesty and your vulnerability and your revelations that I think the rewards, if there are any, far outweigh the risks of turning people off to the fact that you may not be perfect. So I’ve, you know, I’ve just found that sort of laying it out there is easier than putting up a facade even if the facade is, you know, this great Potemkin village that everybody thinks is way more amazing than, you know, than what’s really there. I think that honesty and as somebody once said is probably the best policy.
I agree and I’m seeing a trend in the kind of public speaking, motivational speaking kind of rah-rah conference business workshop kind of arena, that was a really cumbersome way to describe it, but even in social media and stuff where this whole like tell your story, tell your story, tell your story. And it’s interesting because I do see the pendulum kind of swinging and we’re creating this other side of vulnerability which is really kind of swimming in the victimization; swimming in the woe is me, swimming in the like one upping each other and like who was the worst at something. And I really sat with that here recently because I went to a conference and I was listening to all the stories and I’m like oh my gosh why does this really just rub me the wrong way and it dawned on me that it’s a fine line between being vulnerable, being transparent and the kind of woe-is-me-ing and wallowing in it. What I really find refreshing about you and the conversations that we’ve had, your book and everything else, is it’s like, it’s there, the vulnerability is there, the screw-ups are there the transparency is there, and that’s not all. So I think that tying it together and going, “And this is what I did with this.” like “And this is where I’m going with it.” and “I get that I’m not perfect but gosh I’m still trying, you know.” and that’s why I really like the dialogue around personal achievements and persistence. But I mean do you get a sense of that also that there’s kind of too much sharing is too much? Or is it just the how we choose to tie it together that’s the impact?
I never saw it. You just sort of pointed out something that I never would have considered but I think you’re absolutely right which is people do take sort of honesty and sort of self-revelation to a point where it can be woe is me and I want everybody to throw a pity party for me, or this explains all the reasons that I haven’t been a good friend or whatever it may be. So I do agree that being honest doesn’t mean being a victim at all. In fact, I think being honest is incredibly empowering. And I’m not exactly sure where that fine line is and I’m positive that I cross it from time to time and I just don’t get the same feedback. I mean, even if it’s on a Facebook post, if it’s sort of some whiny post about how your kids didn’t call you on your birthday or something. No, people are not totally going to respond to that. But if it’s another one about geez, I miss this opportunity to be a good friend and I learned a lot from it. Boom boom boom boom. You know, people be like me too, me too, me too, so, you know, it’s…there’s a nuance there and you pick right up on and I completely rift and see it at all. But I think that that’s…I think that that’s probably right that there is, you know, honesty is great and being a victim and having people wanting to pity you that’s not…that’s not a lot of fun at all. And people don’t respond. Well, they do respond, just not in a positive way.
Well, and I think intrinsically, you got that because what you said at the very beginning of that response was this concept of empowerment like it really is a powerful place to be when you’re able to go, “Oh I guess, I kind of screwed up there. Ok cool.” And moving through it versus the, you know, well let me share my story with you, well, we all have stories, right? It’s like great God we all have stories. And if the message, you know, the whole conversation around the mess being your message is really tied into “Well, that’s awesome but what are you going to do with it?” Like I want to know what you’re doing with it. I want to know are you kind of taking up space in air or are you really bringing something of value into the world and contributing in some capacity because you persevered through that?
27 years ago I started an organization called The Stepping Stone Foundation.
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That’s a great example. For instance, I was, twenty five years ago, I was a schoolteacher which was my dream in life. And I’d loved being a schoolteacher and I taught at private schools in Massachusetts and in Los Angeles. And I noticed that most of the kids there were rich white kids and they were doing fine and they’re at their own fronts. It’s fun. But a bunch of the kids were from, quote unquote, nontraditional backgrounds, kids of color and poor white kids were really struggling. And they weren’t struggling because they were dumber or because their parents didn’t like them or because they didn’t want to do really well, they were struggling because they’d have to get up at 5:00 in the morning and they didn’t have a computer at home and they didn’t have a bunch of support and they felt alone in the group. And I was talking to a friend of mine and I was moaning about it, about how this is forming for me and, you know, I didn’t deserve all the good things I had. And he finally said, and this is to your point, he said, “We can either complain about it and sound like a victim, or why don’t you start a program and solve the problem?” which I did. And so 27 years ago I started an organization called The Stepping Stone Foundation and with lots of help from lots of other people, we’ve sent thousands of kids who would never have gotten the chance otherwise to go to college, to college and through college, with an 80 percent graduation rate from four-year colleges which is astounding.
All because a friend of yours had the cajones to say “Hey, put up, you know, put up or shut up, you know, it’s like that. That’s really where that comes from, right?
It only came for, I was, you know, sort of, noticing this thing that was upsetting. Exactly, he had the cojones, or however you pronounce or call it, probably more probably came on it, cojones. He said to me, “Look, it’s fun to, you know, complain but that, you know, who wants it? I’m never going to stop the rain by complaining, Andy Williams, you know.” And it’s just, do something…either do something about it or shut up. And I just…and we were at Pizzeria Uno’s right next to Fenway Park and I said, “I want to do something. Would you help me?” And he said, “Absolutely I’ll help you.” And for astounding 27 years and it’s been you know, it’s probably my legacy.
I love it.
Really proud of it but it got back down to your point of wanting or, you know, making something happen.
Yeah and I think to me it’s like the further I go along this journey and the more time I spend on my own self-actualization and there’s a, you know, honing my Super Powers like those of the people that I want to play with. I want to play with the ones that are going to go, “I don’t know if we can do this but we’re going to give it a good old college try.” you know. Speaking of colleges, I really do want to talk about your book but we’re going to take a quick break. You know, you’ve had the great pleasure, all of you sitting and listening to Michael Danziger. And we’re going to talk about his book, Small Puddles, when we come back but we’ve been talking about personal achievements and persistence so stay right with us and we will be right back after this moment.
Awesome we’re back. Thank you all for joining us. We are talking with Michael Danziger about personal achievements and persistence. This is the SuperPower Up! podcast. And as promised, I really am excited to have him share with you his book Small Puddles, the Triumphant Story, and get this folks, of Yale’s Worst Oarsman. Ever.
Ever.
Ever. Ever in the history of the world. I love it. So you’ve already felt, Michael, and obviously he’s this amazing man with this phenomenal energy and his book reads the same way. And so it’s a delightful journey into a really kind of transparent and vulnerable space, you know. Talk to us Michael like why, why the book…how did this come about, like what in the world compelled you to call yourself out like that?
Well so when I went to Yale back in the early mid-80s, there were a few runway books that were out and they were all sort of, you know, there was one by David Halberstam called The Amateurs, another one called Shell Game by Stephen Kiesling.
and a few others and they all had the basic same premise, which is fill-in-the-blank guy shows up on fill-in-the-blank Ivy League campus, freshman year, gets discovered by a coach. He’s told that he’s the perfect size and weight for crew which means he’s tall and skinny and works hard for four years. And then, you know, when he graduates from college he rose to the Olympics and I thought, “Awesome. That’s what I want to do.” And so that happened to me. I got discovered at Yale on old campus which is a freshman squad by Dave Vogel, the coach and I rode hard for four years. I did the absolute best that I could. But instead of ending up in the Olympics, I ended up every single year in the lowest boat that Yale had. And my coach at the end of my career told me that in his estimation, I was by orders of magnitude the worst he’d ever seen. And for somebody, who spent four years working really hard at something, that was sort of demoralizing. And when I got up to leave, he said, “No, sit down because there’s something more important I want to tell you.” And I said, “What’s that?” He said, “You’re better than every son of a bitch who ever quit. And that’s almost all of them.” and he said, “I’m proud of you.” And that made it all…that made it all worthwhile. But I wouldn’t…I knew it was worthwhile and intended because I was always, you know, making a genuine effort and I was doing something, I worked really hard with people who I really liked who were all a lot better than I was. And at the end of the day, I couldn’t have done any more. And that was fine with me. And when I got that, sort of, final validation from my coach, I can tell you I left his office and just burst into tears. I was so happy.
That’s so beautiful.
Yeah. He was a gruff guy. He’s said a lot of really mean things about me and told me I saw it and I was worthless. But when I would say, “I’m not going to quit.” he’d say, “Suit yourself you’re a loser.” You know, and so this same guy who, and he was a fabulous coach, I mean, even though I was the worst, our boats were national champions every year I was there. I just wasn’t in any of the good boats, but I…turns out that some of the guys who were, you know, in those top boats and went on to row for our country in either the Olympics or the world championships, you know, have become my best friends. And one of them is one of my son’s godfathers and my son is…one of my sons was the captain of the rowing team in Georgetown. So there, you know, I guess I passed something along to my kids. But a lot of it was about the idea, you use this word first, of persistence, even if it seemed hapless for a long time. The fact of the matter is, just when you think it’s not really worth it anymore, just push a little harder, you know and you’ll find out maybe this or maybe this.
So much about that resonates with me. I remember basic training, you know, drill sergeant saying using kind of some of that same verbiage and sense of like yeah it’s hard. And some people couldn’t make, you know, some people just couldn’t pass basic training. But it was that the concept was, you know, but you signed up. You know, you volunteered where you know ninety some percent of the population doesn’t, you signed up, you know. And it…and I just kept…I kept that with me, you know, as I progressed through my life after that and it really was inspiring to hear that because I think a lot of times when you’re in the midst of something that’s the norm you know and so when you’re there with these amazing rowers and you’re the worst of the worst of the worst, you know, it’s like yeah it’s easy to think that’s who you are and then you remember like wait but there’s so many other people who aren’t even doing this. But it’s hard you lose track of that, you know, coming from the counterintelligence arena, you know, the running joke was like people only know what you do if you really screw up you know because it’s national security and it’s top secret. Where like you just get your wins can’t be shared other than with other people who have equal wins and so it’s like oh yeah great guy good job you know like there’s no atta girls atta boys accolades and that kind of stuff because it’s like again the highlights are only when you screw up. And so when you’re in those environments, it’s easy to forget that you’re doing something pretty magical or special or maybe even just above and beyond. And I think what you highlight so beautifully is, you know, one, you tried and you can honestly say at the end of the day like you tried your hardest like that it wasn’t like you’re like oh I’m the worst and I’m just kind of slack it like you kept trying. And so that’s really a powerful statement. And then the second piece of you knew you weren’t that great right. There was no hiding as you said your coach was it got a blow and sunshine up your ass like you knew. And you did it anyway and you stuck it out. And I think that that power in them and to see what’s transpired since that, those intrinsic life lessons that you gain from those experiences are have untold value and worth in your existence. Well we’ve been talking with Michael Danziger Unfortunately the audio cut out.
And so we’ll have to reconnect with him later. But you can find a link to the book and his information in the notes and Michael as you’re listening to this later, we absolutely thank you for coming on the show and we were so delighted to connect with you and we look forward to really supporting your work and your efforts in the world as you move forward and have an impact.
And to those of you out there, we’ve been talking of personal achievements and persistence and if you’ve learned nothing from Michael’s story, it’s that that persistence is key and keep going no matter what. All right, well as always we appreciate your loyalty. Thank you all for listening. And until next time, go out, uncover your Super Powers and change the world. Take care everyone.
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