Dare to UnLead
How can you dare to unlead? In this episode of Incorporating Superpowers, host Justin Recla welcomes guest Celine Schillinger to the show to talk all about leadership, or un-leadership. Celine is the author of Dare to UnLead, and an expert in the topic of leadership. The two talk about the concept of being an engaging leader, and how businesses can become focused on building strong dynamics within the world of business relationships! Tune in today to learn more about how you can dare to UnLead!
Justin Recla:
Welcome back to Incorporating Superpowers. Today, we are going to peel the layers off of standard leadership and what that looks like in the business space, and how we can do better. As a matter of fact, my guest today is the author of a new book called Dare to Un-Lead. So we’re gonna explore this concept of leading in engagement, leadership. It’s a phenomenal term regarding leadership and how we need to shift from where we were, to where we’re going in, I’d like you to walk and help me welcome Celine Schillinger to the show today. She is the author of Dare to Un-Lead, she’s traveled the world teaching these concepts of engagement leadership, and she’s here to share some knowledge with you all today. And I hope you pay attention because it’s gonna be a lot of fun slaying. Welcome to the show.
Celine Schillinger:
Thank you, Justin. I’m thrilled to be here.
Justin Recla:
This is good stuff. Okay, so what part of the world are you in right now?
Celine Schillinger:
Currently, I’m in Lille, France. I’ll soon travel to the US, though. So I’ll be in September on the East Coast.
Justin Recla:
Fantastic. So talk to me about saline engagement leadership and put it into it put it into a nutshell right now. And then we’ll dive down the rabbit hole a little bit on the back end of what is engagement leadership.
Celine Schillinger:
So that’s a great question to start with Justin. Engagement I believe the way organizations need to waste relationships need to be developed between organizations and their employees, clients, etc. The way we used to interact in the past, like telling people things to convince them to buy or to work in such a way. So telling people speaking to them from the top from a, you know, knowledgeable position, considering people as a passive audience that needs to be filled with messages for basically doesn’t work anymore. We, as employees, and as citizens, want something else we’ve been empowered by networks, digital technologies, and so on.Â
We no longer I believe, expect to be told to be treated as kids, as children in our organizations in particular. And so there, there’s this need, if we want to be successful as businesses, this just needs to invite people earlier on in the creation of things that matter to them their work, for their product, etc. So it’s really shifting from a passive sort of situation, behavior, or mindset to a co-creation mindset. So how do you engage people? It’s not easy. For organizations, it’s well easier to give orders and expect to be followed, right?Â
But, again, this used to work in the past, but it doesn’t work anymore, people have changed, we have changed, and we no longer expect the same, the same things, the same behaviors and relationships as our parents or grandparents did, right? We want to have a part a say, and even more than a say we want to be considered and respected and involved in the work. So my question is, how do we do that? And I think it requires a new form of leadership.
Justin Recla:
I can’t agree more. That is a that is so spot on. And in what I hear you saying is really what it comes down to is the nature of our relationships in b2b transactions, as a business owner, manager to employee business to customers is the shift is that we’re seeing as is the nature of the relationship in business that is shifting,
Celine Schillinger:
Exactly. There used to be you know, very unequal type of relationships, very, you know, hierarchical relationships, for example, based on patterns of domination, you know, in the workplace, and people went along with that they sort of, you know, accepted that was the norm. Now, you see that very clearly with younger generations, but it’s not, you know, it doesn’t matter to the US alone, it matters to all of us, I think, we aspire to much more equal relationships, but then how do you do that in an organization you know, you need to have some form of organization and, you know, management and responsibilities. So how do you reconcile those new behaviors and new relationships we all aspire to and the structure that is needed for an organization to work effectively? Or how do you manage to organize collectives?Â
And I’m really passionate about that. And I think that the old models of leadership and that’s the point of your podcast, really, those old models do not work anymore, and they have even become toxic, toxic for us people, toxic for our businesses, toxic for our society, is a lot to be changed. You see, for example, the epidemics of burnout, right, so many people quit their work and at their job and burn out. Even the social division and anger we all witness right in politics, I think stem, at least partly from the world of work, from how people feel they’re being treated or not treated well enough. And it’s not just a matter of being nice to people. It’s a matter of being clever and inviting people into becoming actors of our collective destiny. Otherwise, we will keep complaining about leaders will keep complaining about everybody else.
Justin Recla:
This is good. We’re gonna dive down the rabbit hole on this on the backside of that because this is something that I could explore for eons with you. We’re talking about engagement leadership and the author of Dare to Un-Lead. She’s gonna be here in September make sure you get checked and get a chance to check out her book. But before we go on break, Leslie, where can people go find more information about you?
Celine Schillinger:
They can find more information on LinkedIn, Twitter, my YouTube channel, and Instagram. And on my website, weneedsocial.com.Â
Justin Recla:
Folks, go take a look at the book. This stuff is important and if you’re not on board with this stuff, you’re gonna get left behind in business because this is the direction the world’s taking stay with us. We’ll be right back.
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