Gary Renard joins Tonya Dawn Recla to talk about immortality, miracles, and superpowers. A man described as one of the most interesting and courageous spiritual speakers in the world, Gary teaches lessons from The Course in Miracles to audiences all over the world. He and his wife, Cindy Lora-Renard, inspire millions to pursue a life of non-dualism, forgiveness, and connection with God.

Listen in as the best-selling author of The Disappearance of the Universe, Your Immortal Reality, Love Has Forgotten No One and the forthcoming The Lifetimes When Jesus and Buddha Knew Each Other: A History of Mighty Companions talks about how the path of discovering your superpowers, through the process of forgiveness, can actually lead to the most amazing journey of your life.

Hello everyone, this is Tonya Dawn Recla, your Super Power Expert. I’m delighted to be able to share our guest with you today. I just, of course this man needs no introduction, but I’m going to do it anyway, because I just really want to brag about him for a second. Because the magic that you feel when you sit in his presence, and when you talk with him is just amazing. Most of you know him from his books and his courage, and stepping into the space of giving voice to some things that most of us, I think, we admit in our worlds that we’d be a little intimidated to walk into. I really admire him for who he’s agreed to be in this world, and what he continually encourages others to step into.

The Disappearance of the Universe with Gary Renard

Gary Renard is author of Disappearance of the Universe, amongst others. He’s very prolific in making sure that the written word continues to reflect what the journey that we’re all on and all of us are seeking that connection, and what we talk about here at Super Power Experts of really, what are we doing here? What’s the point? Why are we going through all of this? Please tell me that there’s some point to all of this. Gary has a lot of really valuable information to offer on that subject. Without further ado, well and actually I do want to say, and I just really, really adore him and his wife, Cindy. We’re enjoying getting to know them, and just being in that space with them. Without further ado, I really want to ask you to join me in welcoming Gary to the show. Welcome, Gary.

Oh thanks Tonya. It is great to be with you. Been looking forward to this. Those who don’t know, Tonya and Justin, and Cindy and I are getting to know each other. We’re becoming good friends, we shared a great breakfast together in Sedona. Tonya has already interviewed Cindy, and she loved it. I’m really excited to be doing this.

Well it is so funny how that all came about. I just had to laugh. I think even in the middle of the interview with Cindy, I was laughing a little bit to myself because everything just unfolds really naturally. It was like I’m having this silent talk with God while I was interviewing her like, “Okay I get it.” I totally saw how it all unfolded. The obvious thing, obviously would’ve been, “Oh I want to interview Gary, and have him on the show,” but it just didn’t ever come out that way. It was, I went to your website, and I was looking at Cindy’s stuff. I was like, “Wow,” and I just connected in that space and that moment with her. I had our assistant reach out and just say, “Hey, we want to interview you.” It was just magical. The whole thing is, isn’t that life? It’s just a magical existence.

Absolutely, and everything happens exactly when it’s supposed to. We all met at the right time. A Course of Miracles, which is one of the subject matters of my books it says, “The script is written. Those who are to meet, shall meet.” It happens exactly when it’s supposed to. After a while, you just let go and you start to trust the holy spirit. I’ve come to trust the holy spirit. When I say that, I don’t mean it as a religious thing. It’s I’ve never been a religious person. I like to say that in the winter I’m a Buddhist, and in the summer I’m a nudist.

I trust the holy spirit because the holy spirit has earned my trust. It’s a very practical thing for me. I started on a spiritual path when I was about 28 years old, which saved my life at the time because I was severely depressed. I hated life, and I hated people, and I hated God, and I hated the world. I was just totally depressed to the point where I could not really function. Fortunately for me, a friend of mine, I had one friend left at that time, and he dragged me practically to do this thing called the EST training. What that did is it gave me my first thought system. I can’t over emphasize how important it is to have a thought system, because if you don’t train your mind in some way, then the mind will run wild like an animal. It has to be tamed, which is why I needed a thought system that gave me a way to consistently interpret everything that I saw in the world in a good way, in a positive way, and in a consistent way.

Until then, I didn’t realize that the reason that I felt the way that I did, and the way that I felt so depressed had come about as a result of the thoughts that I had been having my whole life. It’s always the thoughts that come first, then the experience follows. What we need to do is grab a hold of the power of the mind, train the mind, break the thought patterns that result in feelings of depression and isolation, and separation, and change them to think in a consistent way with spirit. The reason I say spirit is because really you can’t … Like two identities, there’s the false you, which we’ll call the ego because the Course of Miracles definitely calls it ego, and ego is based on separation and division, and making everything in the world real, which it’s not but which we’ll get to. The ego wants it to be real because the ego likes this idea of separation, and clings to the idea of individual identity and personal existence. People actually think that they are that person that they think they are, and that they are that body, and that everything that goes along with separation is true. That’s the false you.

Then there’s a real you. A you that is true. That is not based on separation. That is based on wholeness. It’s based on oneness. That is spirit. Now, for our purposes when I think about spirit, it’s not being a partial attribute. We’re not going to think of them just being individual thing, because that’s still a separation idea. I have a soul, supposedly, and this soul well it goes on after I die. This soul, well it looks suspiciously like the body that I just left, and that’s still a separation idea. It’s still an idea, a personal existence, individual identity. What the Course of Miracles is saying, well no actually spirit, it’s not a partial thing. True spirit, is all of it, not part of it. It would be the course’s definition of perfect oneness. The knowledge of perfect oneness and the awareness of it. The knowledge that there is nothing else. Nothing else but this perfect oneness with God, which is your true identity.

Right away, you have a choice to make. Are you going to identify and believe in the false you, which is temporary and which is based on separation, or are you going to believe in the truth, which is a constant? The constant does not shift or change. The truth is God, and God is love. Love is a constant, and the truth was the truth 2000 years ago, and the truth is the truth today. The truth will still be the truth 2000 years from now, and it doesn’t matter if we understand and agree with it or not. The truth is not subject to our interpretation. The truth is a constant that will always be there, and the only thing that we can do is choose one or the other. That’s our real power in this world. Whichever one you choose to believe in, will be what affects you.

Course of Miracles says we vigilant only for God and his kingdom. That’s a pretty tall order, because when you get out there, and the world gets in your face, it can be a little bit hard to hang onto that holy ghost friend. It really comes down to a certain kind of forgiveness that chooses what do you believe you are, and what you choose will be what you think is real and ultimately will even establish your own identity as you will see it and believe that it is. If we get a chance, I want to talk very briefly about a certain kind of forgiveness that accelerates that process of awakening. Because this is very much a dream, and of course it’s a very old idea that the world is an illusion, but I think what the Course of Miracles does is it takes an idea and brilliantly refines it into the idea that this is a dream that you will awaken from.

It’s that awakening that is enlightenment. It’s what Buddha was talking about when he said, “I am awake.” He didn’t mean he was more awake in the dream, which is what passes for enlightenment among many people, because everybody’s into being more aware and awake and conscious in the dream, but that’s not what Buddha was talking about. That’s not what a Course of Miracles is talking about. It’s not talking about being more awake in the dream, it’s talking about awakening from the dream. That’s not just a minor distinction. It’s everything. Most people nowadays when they hear that Buddha said, “I am awake,” they think that he meant that he felt amazingly alert and ready to manifest like hell. That’s not what he was talking about. He wasn’t talking about making things happen in the dream, which you can certainly do and which you can be guided to do by the holy spirit, but ultimately, enlightenment is about awakening from the whole thing and realizing that just like you were in bed the other night having a dream, I was in bed the other night having a dream.

The dream was so real that I thought it was true, and when you’re in a dream for all intents and purposes, that dream is your reality. You respond to it. You’ll move around. You’ll toss and turn. Your heart will beat harder. You’ll breathe faster. You’re responding to it as though it’s real, so for you, it is real. What happens when you wake up? Well, the dream disappears and you’re surprised to find out, I was surprised to find out that I had never left the bed. It was there the whole time. It’s not that it wasn’t there, it was just out my awareness, but it was there the whole time. That’s what heaven is like. That’s what the kingdom of God is like. It’s not that it’s not here, it is here. It’s everywhere. It hasn’t gone anywhere, and it hasn’t changed, it’s a constant. It’s like Jesus said 2000 years ago, and you can see this in the gospel of Thomas. The disciples went out to Jesus and they said, “When will the kingdom come?” He said, “Well, it will not come by watching for it. It will not be said, ‘Behold here or behold there.’ Rather the kingdom of the father is spread out upon the earth and people do not see it.”

Well they don’t see it because it’s out of their awareness. It’s not that it’s not there, but the time will come for everybody when they will awaken to the truth, and what is really there will come to their awareness. It’s not that it’s not there. We’ll have to remember that a Course of Miracles is a very big teaching. It’s not the pithily little teaching that a lot of its teachers make it out to be. It’s not a personal thing, except in the way that the holy spirit works with you, but in terms of what it’s teaching, when it talks about removing the blocks to the awareness of love’s presence, which is your natural inheritance. Well removing the blocks, that’s undoing the ego. As the Course says, “Salvation is undoing.” That’s a brilliant approach, because if you could undo the false you, if you can undo the ego and complete the job, then eventually the real you would be all that’s left in your experience.

Your natural inheritance is nothing less than the kingdom of heaven, the kingdom of God.

The real you, is already perfect. You don’t have to do anything about that. It’s already the same as your creator. It’s already exactly the same as God. Perfect oneness. You don’t have to do anything about that. All that you have to do is undo, undo the false you. That is accomplished through a certain kind of forgiveness. You remove the blocks to the awareness, the Course uses more awareness when it talks about heaven. It doesn’t use that word in this world of separation, but it uses that word when it refers to heaven. Removing the blocks of the awareness of love’s presence, which is your natural inheritance. Well, your natural inheritance is nothing less than the kingdom of heaven, the kingdom of God. It’s all yours. It was given to you as a gift by God. You don’t have to earn it. It’s yours.

If somebody gives you a birthday present, you don’t have to earn it. Really all that you have to do is awaken to it. You awaken to it by undoing the ego, and you undo the ego with the kind of forgiveness that is taught in my books and the Course of Miracles. Course of Miracles certainly does not claim to be the only way to get home to God. This is not a religion. It’s not something that you have to believe in. It’s not something that you have to proselytize for, or convince people that it’s the right way or the only way, but I do think it’s fair to say that the Course of Miracles claims to be a fast way to get home. A fast way to undo the ego, says the Miracle, which is the certain kind of forgiveness. That this kind of forgiveness comes from a place of cause and not effect, which we’ll get to. It says the Miracle can substitute for learning. It may have taken thousands of years.

It says the key thing of the miracle worker is to save time. I do think it’s fair to say that the Course can save you a lot of time. It can save you countless lifetimes in your spiritual development, and just get you home a lot faster. To me, that’s a pretty practical feature. I had to be on a spiritual path for 15 years before I even found the Course of Miracles, because I wouldn’t have been ready for it. The Course really is not for spiritual beginners. It’s for people who have been around the block a couple of times, and they realize that maybe there is a reality that is just beyond the veil. There’s a reality of spirit that is everywhere, and it’s just like being covered over by this thin veil of illusion that people take for granted and think is reality. When it’s really very much like a movie.

The Course says you are reviewing mentally, that which has already gone by. That’s a pretty good description of a movie, because the movie’s already been filmed. Our real power lies in choosing. Whose interpretation of the movie are you going to listen to? It’s like you’re sitting in a movie theater and you got the ego sitting on one side of you, and the ego is saying, “You can’t forgive that person, he doesn’t deserve it.” This is a real problem. It’s a real world, and you’re a real person, and you better really take care of it. All that does is keep the whole can of worms real in your mind, and keeps you believing in it. Wherever you invest your belief, that is what will affect you. A Course of Miracles says about this certain kind of forgiveness, that it denies the ability of anything not of God to affect you.

What we’re doing, is we’re taking that belief that we put in the world, we’re taking it back. We’re putting that belief where it belongs, which is why the Course says be vigilant only for God and his kingdom, which nobody does at first. It’s a process, but it’s a good process. As you undo the ego, you’re experience can start to change, because now if you’re investing your belief in spirit, then that is going to be what is going to come to affect you. Maybe your experience of life will change. Maybe your body will start to feel lighter. Maybe it will start to feel more like a figure in a dream, that it really is. This thing you have to carry around, maybe it’ll become more elastic. Maybe it’ll be more difficult to hurt it.

A couple years ago I was in an airport and I was going down the escalator and somebody behind me accidentally pushed me. I went face first down the escalator. It was pretty gruesome. There was blood all over me and everything, but the weird thing was, it didn’t hurt. I thought, “Boy that’s strange. That should hurt.” It didn’t hurt. There’ll be times, you’ll probably go back and forth at first. Sometimes it’ll hurt, sometimes it won’t, but there will be times when you might get in a little accident and you get hurt, and it doesn’t hurt. Then you’ll say, “Wow, something is happening here. Something very interesting is happening here.” Somebody walks into the room that you can’t stand. They used to always push your buttons. Used to always make you feel uncomfortable. Then one day, they walk into the room, and they have no affect on you, and you’re peaceful. That’s how you’ll know if you’ve really forgiven something, because things that used to affect you don’t bother you anymore.

Gary, I want to jump in on this piece, because part of the challenge, and what I love so much about what I glean from your books and stuff, was the concept you were just talking about. About the idea of, it happening in a replay. There were a couple pieces that you hit up on. I want to take a quick break though for our sponsors and then when I come back, I want to tie this into that super power conversation and how we can really help people make the connection between the amazing information that you’re offering, and the perspective of there being more. When we get back, I want to … We’re going to ask Gary about his super powers, and we’re going to dive into this further. Stay tuned and we will be back. If you’re joining us, you’re on Super Power podcast, and we’re listening to the amazing Gary Renard. We’ll be right back.

Awesome, well we’re back and if you’re just now joining us, we’re with Gary Renard here on the Super Power Up! podcast. If you missed the first part, make sure you go back and listen to it, because amazing information about Course in Miracles, about forgiveness, about the illusion. Gary, I wanted to ask you, first of all, what are your super powers with regard to all of this?

Well, I remember after being on a spiritual path for about 13 years, and this is maybe one or two years before I even got into a Course of Miracles. I noticed that I had discovered what I would call the in between zone. That was the zone where I am, when I’m just falling off to sleep, and not quite asleep, still awake but just in between. The same thing happens when I wake up in the morning. I’m not quite awake, still a little bit asleep. It’s like that in between zone. It’s at that point that I see visions. I see, it’s almost like watching a movie, and many times it involves past lifetimes. I go back 2000 years ago to the time of Jesus, and it’s very much like watching a movie, often with sound. It started off at first just being still pictures, but eventually it developed into movies and movies with sound. I’m getting all kinds of information in these movies that I see.

Then what started happening is I would see flashes of light in between objects, and it wasn’t until I was doing the Course, there’s a workbook lesson #15, talks about light episodes. These light episodes are symbolic of the fact that your mind is starting to awaken. That you’re opening your eyes, which is symbolic the way the Course puts it. Your awareness is increasing, and the Course says that as your awareness increases, you may develop many abilities that may seem quite startling to you. It says to not fear them. You’re simply becoming more natural. You start developing psychic abilities, psychic powers. It really just means that your awareness is increasing, that you’re undoing the ego. That you’re gaining more access to the mind. You’re gaining more access to spirit. Then you start getting inspired ideas, which I certainly believe that these are given to me by the holy spirit. In fact, the word inspired, comes from the words, in spirit.

The more you undo the ego, the more spirit is taking over your mind, and you may have all kinds of wild things happen. Any super powers that I feel today, I believe come from working with the holy spirit. Which brings up how my books got started, because I was meditating one day in my living room in Maine, and I felt like I had gotten very good at meditating. I would meditate for an hour and a half a day. One day I opened my eyes, and there were two people sitting there on my living room couch. There was this beautiful, amazing, drop dead gorgeous woman was sitting there, and some guy. I didn’t look at him too much, but he started to talk to me. What they were saying was very interesting, and they didn’t seem anything to be afraid of because the look on their faces was so peaceful that they did not inspire fear. They inspired peace.

Wait Gary, I have to step in here. For those of you listening, he’s so peaceful, he’s … Gary, you’re just so amazing, but I just want to put this in perspective. Folks, what he’s talking about is he’s sitting in a room, and all of a sudden these beings appeared to him. Not etheric, not whispyness, not I think I just saw something, but all of a sudden here are these beings sitting there. Gary, how did you … You’re so calm about it. How did that … I get that they didn’t invoke fear or anything else, but wow. Just wow. Did you have that immediate, “What the?” What was that like?

Yeah, “What the?” Yeah, that came to mind. I admit it was pretty high up there on the weird [inaudible 00:24:03]. At the same time, they did seem so peaceful, and what they were saying sounded interesting. That was their shortest visit ever. Didn’t last that long. They were almost preparing me for the second visit, which was their longest visit ever. It was, they just didn’t seem to be anything to be afraid of. I was in a peaceful state of mind because of the meditation. They said that they’d be back in a week, and I don’t know if I believed him or not. I thought, “Well maybe I’ve been meditating too much.”

You’re like, “Where am I? What am I doing?”

It was many years before I would discover what they really are, which I’ll get to, but you have to understand that at that time I was really out in the boondocks. I didn’t have anything better to do, so I didn’t mind having this. At first, it seemed like a diversion, and then it became the most important thing in my life. It was very interesting. They appeared to me for the purposes of that first book. They told me, after a few chapters that you see in the book. You can see that they told me I was going to write a book, and that wasn’t my goal. That wasn’t my dream at that time. I had been a musician my whole life, and if I was going to write something, I would’ve liked to have written a big hit song. That would’ve been my plan. I write a song. The song sells 10 million copies, and I move to Hawaii, and drink beer. That would’ve been my big plan. The holy spirit is like, “Uh, no.”

Then God laughed.

Then God laughed.

Yeah, there’s something else for you to do. They’re saying I’m going to write a book. I’m not a writer. I said, “Look, I have a hard time writing a check. What do you mean, writing a book?” It was practically handed to me on a silver platter. My link to my books is that I write my narration, I put in my notes, I explain what was going on for me at the time, and how I was trying to practice this kind of forgiveness, which wasn’t easy for me. It took, I think, years for me to get good at it. Then at times I felt like I was in the slow class. Actually, what my teachers did looking back on it, and they’re still doing it. I have a fourth book coming out around Thanksgiving. What they did for me was they started telling me about this thing called the Course of Miracles, and they said at the end of the second visit, that I was going to start studying it.

I never heard of that. My attitude was, well nobody’s going to tell me what to do. There I was, and they knew this, but there I was, three days later, buying my first copy of the Course of Miracles. I picked it up, and I started to read it, and it’s like, “What the hell is this?” It made no sense whatsoever to me. It might as well have been written in a foreign language. I didn’t know this at the time, but a Course of Miracles is a holographic presentation. It starts off with its most advanced ideas, and one example, the first miracle principle is that there is no order of difficulty in miracles. One is not harder or bigger than another. They’re all the same. You pick that up and read that, I don’t know how anybody could possibly know what that means.

It starts off with all of these advanced ideas, and doesn’t explain them in a linear way. It just gives them to you and keeps repeating them, and hopefully you’re going to pick it up as time goes on. That doesn’t really happen for most of its readers. The Course ends up sitting on their bookshelf for years. What my teachers did was they gave me a linear presentation of the Course. They spelled it out for me. They explained everything in a way that a 12 year old child could understand. They really gave it to me in a way that I could understand it. Then once I understood it, I could go back and read the Course, and it made total sense to me right from the beginning.

That linear presentation that has empowered not only me to be able to understand the course, and if you understand something that makes it possible for you to apply it. The real progress is made in the application. It’s not meant just to be understood. It has to be done. You have to apply it to the everyday situations and events and relationships that you find yourself in. If you do that, then you will progress light years, quickly on your spiritual path.

Well and I want to ask you about that, because the … I appreciate everything that you’re sharing, and I think that a big part of the hurdle with the Course of Miracles is, well a few things. 1) we have so much in our collective consciousness about the Christian dialect, and the construct, but then 2) where for me, my personal journey with it was it felt antithetical to the information I was receiving. I’m so grateful that you were willing to come on the show and talk about super powers and put it in that perspective. You even were willing to address the concept of the miracles and then all these gifts that come forward, because I found that really challenging to reconcile.

It was, here was this seemingly religious, biblical doctrine, even though I know that’s not what the Course professes to be. That was the only box I had to put it in, but then here I’m getting all this information about the matrix, and abilities, and time travel, and all these other things and it was those seemed like juxtaposing ideas and concepts. How important is it for us to, in this day and age now, be able to tie all of that together?

Yeah, so you have two different levels. You have the level of the mind where the Course is done. Then you have the level of the dream, which is coming from the mind. The Course in a very practical way, it’s not asking you to give up anything. There’s no sacrifice. You can still have your life. You can still have the things that you like. You don’t have to give up anything. You can still have possessions. You can still have money. You can still be successful. You can still have sex. You can still have all these interests in all the different things that are there in the dream. The only difference with the Course of Miracles, is that you’re looking at it differently, because now you’re looking at it with the holy spirit, instead of the ego.

That leads to peace, where the ego’s interpretation eventually leads to conflict, because as long as there’s conflict in the mind, there will be conflict out there on the screen, because what you’re seeing is an effect and it’s the mind that is cause. Which is why the Course says this is a course in cause and not effect. Now it’s you’re in a movie theater, and instead of always trying to change the screen, which at best is going to work temporarily, now you’re trying to fix the cause. The cause is where the projector is. In a movie theater, you don’t turn around and look at the projector. Your attention has been diverted to the screen, and after a while you forget that what’s happening on the screen isn’t true, it’s a trick. It’s an illusion, but you forget about that, and you get sucked into the story, and you might get emotional about what’s happening on the screen.

You have to change what’s in the projector.
Photo by Jeremy Yap on Unsplash

You might even talk to the screen. You might say, “Hey, no, don’t go there.” You’re getting into it. You forget that if you really want it to change what was on that screen, then it’s not going to do you that much good to fool around with the illusion, fool around with the screen. If you really want to change what’s on the screen, you got to find that projector. You have to change what’s in the projector. If you change what’s in the the projector, the screen will take care of itself. The way the Course of Miracles puts it is, you take care of the cause and the effect will change automatically. It’s just that your focus has changed now. Now you’re coming from a place of cause, because this is your dream. Most people don’t know that they’re dreaming, and if they don’t know that they’re dreaming, then they’re at the effect of it.

That’s so interesting because that was one of the biggest concepts when … I call it, the abstract frequency. That’s how I experienced it, and that was the verbiage that I was given to put around it, but it is exactly what you’re talking about. It’s moving into where you’re coming from, you’re following the holy spirit script as opposed to the ego script. The cause and effect piece was so huge, and I kept hearing these words come out of my mouth that it’s, wait, the cause and effect are backwards here. I kept saying it’s opposite of what we thought it was. Up and to a certain point, it felt like my existence was, the cause and effect was if A then B, but then all of a sudden there was this moment in time where all of a sudden it was, if B then A. It was like, “What just happened?” I felt like I was in a fun house, everything got turned upside down.

I love the fact that there’s the continuity in the verbiage around some of the information that I read, that has nothing to do with the Course of Miracles. The information that I’ve received on my own. All of this stuff, but I think that the cause and effect piece in my opinion is one of the most crucial concepts to get down. What advice do you have for people and how to really flip that?

Yeah, I should put that in terms of the concept of abundance. Because everybody is interested in abundance nowadays, and I have met billionaires here in California that have all the money they could ever want. They could have anything they want, and they’re still coming from a place of lack.-

Yup, it’s amazing.

They’ll say to me, “Gary, I feel like something’s missing.” I say to them, “Well actually, something is missing. That’s why you feel that way.” A Course of Miracles says that a sense of separation from God is the only lack you really need correct. A Course of Miracles brings about abundance also, but what it’s teaching is that in order to truly be coming to a place of abundance you have to be coming from a place of abundance. If you could undo that one real lack, that sense of separation from your creator, then all the rest would start to take care of themselves because now you’re taking care of the cause of that feeling of lack. You’re changing it to abundance. As the Course says Christ needs nothing, and wants to join with others out of a mutual awareness of abundance.

Now you’re coming from this place of abundance. You don’t have to get anything from anybody. You start to feel like you’re taken care of. You’re being provided for. A very interesting thing happens when you’re coming from that place. It makes it much easier for abundance to actually show up out there on the screen. When you’re coming from a place of lack, you’re actually cutting off your supply, but when you come from a place of abundance … When I say you’re cutting off your supply, even if you have a lot, look at how many people get money and then a year or two later, it’s gone. They don’t hang onto it. They don’t keep it. They don’t stay in a place of abundance, because they’re not really coming from a place of abundance.

Right.

If you could do that, then you’d always be taken care of, and there would always be abundance showing up in your movie and in your dream, so to speak.

It can’t be because of that. I think that that’s what you’re talking about is so important. You can’t do it for those reasons.

Exactly. It’s an after effect. It’s what the Course in the Song of Prayer calls, the echoes, the overtones, the harmonics of the holy spirit’s love and God’s love. That’s not the purpose of what you’re doing, but it does show up as a result of what you’re doing. There’s an irony there, that in coming from a place of abundance instead of trying to get it, you end up getting it.

Well that’s so funny, we get asked that question a lot, because the super power experts model was really very divinely inspired. It was just me, I had finally gotten to a place where I was willing to follow that guidance. The construct of it was very pure and organic, and [inaudible 00:36:44] of course it’s working beautifully and growing exponentially, and all these other concepts. We’ve touched so many people through the podcast as well as the membership. People ask now, now they want to know, “Well how did you do it? What was the revenue model, and what was all this, and what was all this?” I have to stop myself and be like, “Okay, let’s see if we can put it into terms that people could comprehend,” because that was never the driving force.

I was told, and I believed that that would be the natural byproduct, but the concept of building this with the intent to make money was ludicrous. It was the money would come from building it in alignment with the guidance given. It was strict. I’m sure you’ve had a similar experience. There wasn’t any, “Well you could do it sort of this way, but then go ahead and do all these other things, or go ahead … Oh yeah you can add in these other components.” There were very strict guidelines that were given, and when I deviated from those at all, even in the slightest the effect wasn’t favorable. It was this constant nudging back on track. It’s such a fascinating dialogue when people want to constantly put it back into a tangible, third dimensional ego script reality and you’re like, “But it didn’t come from that place.” It’s very challenging to speak two different languages about a concept to draw those connections. Have you had a similar experience?

Yeah, I think there’s a byproduct, Course of Miracles, and that’s these inspired ideas that are given to you by the holy spirit. For example, you may have a business, you may be having a hard time getting it to work. You can’t quite figure out how to make money, how to make it work. If you’ve been working with the holy spirit and undoing the ego, then what happens is, no intent on your part, you’re just sitting around. You’re not doing anything special. You forget about your problems, and you’re eating lunch, and then all of a sudden an idea comes to you. It’s an inspired idea, and it will tell you how to make that business work, and how to make money. This is true of everything in your life.

You can be guided. People have questions that are very important to them. It’s just a dream, but it’s still important to them. Should I stay with this person? Should I move? Should I stay with this career? I’ve made big decisions like that in my life since I started doing the Course. I never thought I would move from New England to California. I never thought that I would be living with this beautiful woman who’s also into the Course of Miracles. I never thought that I’d be traveling all over the world. If you told me 25 years ago, before all this started, that any of that was going to happen, I wouldn’t have believed it. It came about as a result of undoing the ego and listening to the guidance of the holy spirit.

That guidance can be very practical. Once again, it’s not what the Course is about. The main goals of the Course are first of all peace, and I used to think, well peace, big deal. What’s that going to get me?

You’re like, “That and a nickel will buy you coffee,” right?

Actually, as the Course says, a egoic mind, is not a little gift. There are all kinds of things that come about as a result of that, that we don’t even think of until it starts to happen. The holy spirit can guide you to amazing things. The way that you feel is affected. I started doing this, the Course of Miracles, 24 years ago. I feel better today than I did 24 years ago. I mean that. The benefits that come to you, just very practical. It’s like Emerson said, “Health is the first wealth.” You can’t put a price tag on some of those things that can come to you as a result of doing this. Then at the same time, you get to have your life, an inspired life. The holy spirit will lead you to what is best for everybody, not what is just best for you.

If it’s best for everybody, well it’s also good for you. It may not always fit your pictures, but it’s good. I’m not complaining, just because I didn’t have my hit record, I’m not complaining about it, because what I was led to was even better. I’m very happy. It’s very practical, so you get to have your life. You don’t have to give up anything. It’s a better life. It’s a better quality of life. Then on top of that, at the same time, you get to slowly but surely awaken in God. You talk about a win-win situation.

Well win-win-win, because ultimately, and we’ll have to have you back on the show sometime to talk about the impact that has on the collective. Because again, we have this concept, everyone’s about mass consciousness and waking everyone up, and the irony is that it really is a singularity. The oneness concept, but that is … I can see how all of that fits together in terms of the evolution of what comes next in that connection process. It’s the connection to source, connection to self, connection to others, and then ultimately the connection within all of us. It seems so counterintuitive to trust first and implement second, especially those of us who are entrepreneurs, but I appreciate the fact that you’re giving voice to that.

I know we’re wrapping up on time here, but I promise all of you who are listening, we’ll have Gary back on. We’ll have many more conversations, but for now, where can people go to find out more about you?

Well they can go to my website, GaryRenard.com. I thought of the name for the website myself, and it’s really all kinds of information. My fourth book will be out the end of the year, but if they want to find out more about my work, and if they want to read my stuff, the best book to start with is probably the first one, The Disappearance of the Universe.

Absolutely, and we’ll have links in the article for that too.

There’s also a schedule, says where I’m going to be speaking. I do speak all over the world, although I am starting to gradually cut back on my travels, because I do want to spend more time writing. At the same time, I love to speak. I’ll never quit doing that. I just may not do it as much as I have in the past, because sometimes my schedule’s been pretty crazy.

Coming from the guy who never thought he’d be up speaking in front of people, right?

Oh that’s for sure. I dreaded the idea. I hated the idea of speaking in front of people, and I couldn’t have done it without the holy spirit. I think by the third or fourth time that I did it, there was absolutely no stress whatsoever. There was more stress brushing my teeth.

Very cool. Well I love, you’re such a walking testament to what it looks like to do the work. For those of you listening, I highly recommend you check our Gary’s work. As you can tell, he’s a wealth of information. Watch the inner dialogue around wanting to disregard some of it. We talked a little bit about this when we had Cindy on the show, but it’s easy for us to give into our old constructs about the holy spirit and God, and the Bible. It’s not even, it’s so far beyond all of that. That really use this as an opportunity to check your own stories, and to see what’s being brought up for you to be evolved right now, and to have a different perspective on, and look at it as the gift that it is.

If you’re feeling challenged by some of the dialogue, instead of moving right into judgment about it, and disagreement, ask yourself, “Why am I feeling like I need to have an opinion about this, or I need to disregard this, or I really want to write it off?” Check in with yourself, and of course if you want to continue to have conversations about that, we’re always happy to have those within the super power net. Gary, any final words before we let you go?

Well I would just say that I think that without being on a spiritual path, and without a Course of Miracles, my life would’ve been sad. There’s one feeling that I have nowadays for all of this, it’s a feeling of gratitude. I would remind people to remember to be grateful, because that is a great place to be coming from. If you’re coming from a place of gratitude, you’re opening in yourself up to even more to be grateful for. That would be my thought of the day. Come from a place of gratitude, and you won’t regret it.

Perfect. I love that. I think that that’s a phenomenal place to start from. When you take it back to that place, magic really does happen folks. It’s a discipline, and I love that Gary started off the show by talking about the fact that you have to have a way to manage the mind. That’s a lot of the concepts and the practice that we operate in the super power net, and we’re always happy to assist with that. Gary, I can’t thank you enough for coming on a show and tying together the concepts of super power and the Course in Miracles. I look forward to many, many more conversations.

Well thank you Tonya. I really appreciate the work that you and Justin are doing, so keep it up. Talk again soon.

Thank you so much, and to all of you out there, as always, we appreciate your loyalty. Until next time, go out, uncover your super powers, and change the world. Take care everyone.